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Old 09-18-2009, 07:13 AM  
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Using horse wormer on goats?

I know goats need to be wormer, and I know there is wormer for goats, however I have seen some online catalogs advertise using horse wormer on goats ( I can' t remeber now what brand/type). Does anyone do this? Is it safe, what kind and what dose. We have just a small little herd of 3, one buck, one doe, and one doe due to kid in november. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks
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Old 09-18-2009, 02:14 PM  
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I am interested in the answer to this as well. I was told by the fellow at the feed store, after he looked it up, that safeguard was OK to use on goats.

Can some of the more experienced goat owners comment on this as well.

Thanks.
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Old 09-18-2009, 02:28 PM  
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Yes, some horse wormers are great for goats, depending on what parasites you are trying to knock out. Check the online Caprine Supply catalog for more information. You can also call them for advice. Their catalog is a good resource. You can also ask your vet for advice.
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Old 09-18-2009, 02:28 PM  
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I'm not sure about the horse wormer on goats. Range, Promise Ranch or Karen Cole may know. Or just check with your vet.

I will say though, that I purchased wormer and annual shots for my goats from my vet for a total of $8. I have 2 goats, so, just $4 each.
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Old 09-18-2009, 02:31 PM  
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I never, EVER recommend to my customers to use a product that isn't labled for that species. Way too many things can go wrong. A horse and a goat's digestive systems (the delivery method) are so completely and totally different I'd be dang sure careful if you were to try it.
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Old 09-18-2009, 04:11 PM  
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I generally tell people "if they were mine this is what I would do" . First off if I were to buy a thing of Safeguard in any form I would just dump it on the ground because that's all the good it will do me. Never would I recomend using it for goats. There are some people that do and the recomended dosage is 3 times the cattle dose for 3 days in a row...kinda a pointless way to spend money if you ask me.

We have been using Ivomectin Cattle inj. as an injectable with good results. We know the goats get the entire dosage because it's given under the skin. If you are squirmish about shots you can give it orally but because of the goats digestive tract it's not as effective. The dose varries depending on the part of the country you live in and how effective Ivermectin is....I give it at about 1 cc per 25#s, I think that's the highest I've seen it dosed at. Some give it at 1 cc per 35#s others 1 cc per 50#s. No it is not labled at this this time for goats but it is for horses, cattle, swine and sheep as well as humans.

There are very few wormers that are labled for goats the two I can think of are Safeguard and Valbazen. Valbazen works well for tapeworms if given at the dose of 1 cc per10#s 3 days in a row but one must be VERY carefull not to overdose or death may occur. Also , it should not be used in breeding animals, it can cause deformities of the kids, the does eggs and the bucks sperm so if given to a breeding animal you should wait no less than 30 days to breed that animal. I know some who have used it by mistake with no problems others that have had horribly disfigured kids because of it.

Cydectin, Syntinac (sp), Dectomax inj., Levasole (need acurate weight to use) Ivermectin Plus, Quest, Quest Plus are also wormers that can be used on goats I have personally used Quest Plus but cannot recall the dosage. I can tell you it worked GREAT but again you have to be carefull of the dose. If I use something other than Ivermectin I check the milk/meat withdrawls and normally add a week to that .

I hope this helps the only other suggestion I can give you is to go to Yahoo Groups and sign up for The_Boer_Goat. It's a user friendly site and they will help you no matter what breed of goat you have. OH also get fecals done or learn how to do them yourself. Goats should not be wormed unless they need it and you should not rotate wormers with them. Use one until it no longer works then switch to another.

Karen
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Old 09-19-2009, 08:22 AM  
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I just want to add a comment or two to Karen Cole's...
I do have a goat customer that uses Ivomec injectable (labeled for cattle and swine) for his goats. I let him buy it, and he's had good luck. But he's also been informed that it's at his risk. My company holds no liability, nor does the manufacturer. But I do believe that it's safe the way he does it.
But I have to disagree about it being labeled for other species such as horses, sheep and humans. At least BRAND name Ivomec is NOT! It is labled for cattle, swine, reindeer, and American bison ONLY. Now, that doesn't mean you can't use it, but it means that the manufacturer will not stand behind it if you use it off label. Ivomec does make other forms, such as a drench labeled for sheep only, as does Cydectin. There are a few other companies that I can order from that do make a drench that is actually labeled for goats, and some others that manufacture a feed through pellet.
Now, IVERMECTIN (the drug in Ivomec) is labeled, in different forms and at different dosages, for other species. Liquid, injectable Ivermectin can be given to horses, but only orally or it can kill them! Ivermectin in any form can kill dogs, with certain breeds being more suscebtable than others.
I've even heard of people putting Ivomec or Ivermectin in their children's orange juice, but I've never had personal experience with that one.
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Old 09-19-2009, 08:50 AM  
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My suggestion? Go herbal. Check www.fiascofarm.com. The majority of goats have chemical resistant worms....

Also....as Karen stated, most any product used on goats is off-label.
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Old 09-19-2009, 10:47 AM  
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Your right I should have been more clear on the Ivermectin thing. Ivermectin in some form...past, pour on or injectable is approved for most species other than goats. Yes, it can kill them if overdosed and has been known to cause nurilogical issues but that's for any species even it it's approved for that species and is overdosed. As for using it on humans I have no problems with that either. Kinda funny but Ivermectin was made with the intent of being a wormer in third world countries as a cheap wormer for people. As for using on dogs...check the HW pills they are ivomec. Not recomended for collie and herding type dogs but it is a wormer used quite a bit for HW treatment. I've given it myself to numerous dogs...under vet direction.

Perhaps some day testing will be done so that goats can be added to lable but at this point they are still considered a throw away animal and not worthy of commercial testing. What a shame considering the price tags on some of them, but hey what do I know?

We use the 1% cattle inj. all the time on herd, never had anybody ask what we using on it even though we buy in a 500ml bottle. We've also never had an issue using it. More goats were lost or unthrifty when we used "Goat" wormers on them. I've also briefly tried herbal and maybe they would work on a close monitored small herd but not on 50-100 animals that are sometimes in close quarters. The bottom line is people need to decide what works best for them and thier herd be it horses, cattle, goats or whatever. The answers I post are from experiance based on just 10 years of raising goats with an average herd of only 50-100 animals at any given time.

Karen

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Originally Posted by Rockin GR View Post
I just want to add a comment or two to Karen Cole's...
I do have a goat customer that uses Ivomec injectable (labeled for cattle and swine) for his goats. I let him buy it, and he's had good luck. But he's also been informed that it's at his risk. My company holds no liability, nor does the manufacturer. But I do believe that it's safe the way he does it.
But I have to disagree about it being labeled for other species such as horses, sheep and humans. At least BRAND name Ivomec is NOT! It is labled for cattle, swine, reindeer, and American bison ONLY. Now, that doesn't mean you can't use it, but it means that the manufacturer will not stand behind it if you use it off label. Ivomec does make other forms, such as a drench labeled for sheep only, as does Cydectin. There are a few other companies that I can order from that do make a drench that is actually labeled for goats, and some others that manufacture a feed through pellet.
Now, IVERMECTIN (the drug in Ivomec) is labeled, in different forms and at different dosages, for other species. Liquid, injectable Ivermectin can be given to horses, but only orally or it can kill them! Ivermectin in any form can kill dogs, with certain breeds being more suscebtable than others.
I've even heard of people putting Ivomec or Ivermectin in their children's orange juice, but I've never had personal experience with that one.
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Old 09-19-2009, 04:09 PM  
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I use the Ivermectin horse pastes, or the Ivomec inj. for ours.

With the pastes, I dose them the same way as dosing horses.

With Injectible, I dose them at 1cc per 50#.


I've tried the 'feed through' wormers labelled for goats (at TSC) and they just don't seem too effective.
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Old 09-20-2009, 08:57 AM  
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Karen - you raise a good point. Herbal wormers are not time or cost effective for a large herd. My herd of 20 is time consuming to dose weekly.

Hopefully, the wormers that are currently effective will remain so. I know that I worm with Ivermectin (before the herbal), and my goats became resistant. Even to Ivomec.
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Old 09-20-2009, 10:34 AM  
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Is there a rule of thumb for "guesstimating" a goats weight? I am not opposed to injectable, but I have no idea how to arrive at a fairly accurate weight that I would feel comfortable using for dosing.
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Old 09-20-2009, 10:55 AM  
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I have used Ivermectin on my goats but only the paste. I have been doing it for years and they are ok. They were dosed as per their weight. Just my personal experience.
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Old 09-20-2009, 07:30 PM  
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We just eyeball them, maybe pick them up and judge what they weigh but we've been doing this a long time. We've found that our guesses are pretty close to weight tapes and scales. The weight tapes do not work for Boer goats because of the added bone mass but there is a calculation you can use. I have no idea what that would be although I've heard of other Boer breeders using it. My methode is so not the best way to go about it but it works for me. We figure our bucks weigh about 300#s (for the Sr.), the Dairy buck and older Boer does, Saanen doe and Jr. Boer bucks are about 200#s, most of the other girls are right around 150 and then of course the kids are smaller.

So far we've had no issues from overdosing...at some point Iam going to get a scale then we can do it correctly.

Karen

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Originally Posted by Buckeye Horsefeathers View Post
Is there a rule of thumb for "guesstimating" a goats weight? I am not opposed to injectable, but I have no idea how to arrive at a fairly accurate weight that I would feel comfortable using for dosing.
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Old 09-20-2009, 07:32 PM  
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WoW Range!!! Glad you can make it work we really don't like using drugs but for us there is no way around it. I am working 7 days a week now some days 10 hours outside the farm. I really don't know for sure how many goats we have but I can say there is 25 brood does and 4 bucks....then there is the 2009 bucks/wethers, 2009 does and the 2008 does we retained. There is just no way I could worm them weekly.

Karen

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Originally Posted by Range View Post
Karen - you raise a good point. Herbal wormers are not time or cost effective for a large herd. My herd of 20 is time consuming to dose weekly.

Hopefully, the wormers that are currently effective will remain so. I know that I worm with Ivermectin (before the herbal), and my goats became resistant. Even to Ivomec.
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Old 09-21-2009, 12:43 AM  
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I don't know about other types of goats but for our dairy goats I use a table that gives a weight for the heart girth in inches. I've used it for many years(have had goats since 1988, I don't remember when I got the book). I think it is fairly accurate though as Karen says a real scale would be SO nice.
I agree with whoever recommended the fecal checks as well. This year after worming I noticed some animals not looking as they should and sure enough the wormer I used did not kill the tapeworms. It's the best way to find out what to use.
I haven't used injectable wormer in years my goats really found it painful and were doing back flips after the shot. It has been along time and they may have improved the product but this year I've been using the oral solutions and doing follow up fecal checks, they've only cost $5 per check, though I expect that is a very good deal.
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Old 09-21-2009, 03:08 AM  
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Goats are freaky things to worm as the barber pole worms and things they get that other species do not, an overdose orally can make them bleed out into their stomach so really ask the people at the store or your vet which is the best option for you. Rotating their pasture is a fabulous thing to do.
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Old 09-25-2009, 08:39 PM  
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We are out of the "goat business", but I used to worm occasionally with ivermectin paste---never had a problem---used it for lice too.
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Old 09-25-2009, 09:25 PM  
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A great web site for everyone

This is one of the best site for Goat Info. jackmauldin.com it has just about everything you need to know
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